Table On-Topic Summary - 25-Oct-2002
A compilation of this board's financial/economic posts From 44065 to 44103



Post  44065  by  uponroof       Reply
srudek...

Thanks for the reply. I do now recall your previous post (perhaps a month+ ago?) on Mr. Soros and his reflexive theory. Makes sense to me as the logical result of perpetuated nonsensical feedback cycles. However, I hope it is not being presented, more importantly sold and bought, as yet another form of "this time it's different".

I note that HLIT must be moving onto these traders radar as it is behaving rather strangely these days. I believe it was up .24 on bad earnings? (thanks to Linda for pointing this out)

Skilled TA guys are perhaps sitting in very good position as markets embark on perhaps years(?) of this new reflexive reality. Then again...how much of this illogical nonsense can a teetering market take? Does reflexive investing have the potential to bring on, or amplify a very bad ending? It will be interesting to watch this play out. I can't help but believe at some point reality will correct those not paying attention to it...unless we're all living in a matrix.

Great insight from Saville also.

Keep your thoughts coming as they are much appreciated.




Post  44066  by  uponroof       Reply
srudek...

Thanks for the reply. I do now recall your previous post (perhaps a month+ ago?) on Mr. Soros and his 'reflexive theory'. Makes sense to me as the logical result of perpetuated nonsensical feedback cycles. However, I hope it is not being presented, more importantly sold and bought, as yet another form of "this time it's different".

I note that HLIT must be moving onto these traders radar as it is behaving rather strangely these days. I believe it was up .24 on bad earnings? (thanks to Linda for pointing this out)

Skilled TA guys are perhaps sitting in very good position as markets embark on perhaps years(?) of this new reflexive reality. Then again...how much of this illogical nonsense can a teetering market take? Does reflexive investing have the potential to bring on, or amplify a very bad ending? It will be interesting to watch this play out. I can't help but believe at some point reality will correct those not paying attention to it...unless of course we're all living in 'the matrix'.

Great insight from Saville also. Thanks.

Keep your thoughts coming as they are much appreciated.


Post  44067  by  tinljhtkh       OT: Choices exist on all sides,


Post  44068  by  clo       Reply
Ex-F.B.I. Chief Seen as Choice for Accounting Post

By STEPHEN LABATON NY Times

WASHINGTON, Oct. 24 The Securities and Exchange Commission has settled on William H. Webster, the former F.B.I. and C.I.A. director, to head a new agency regulating the accounting profession, commission officials and Congressional aides briefed about the decision said today.

The selection was made by the three Republicans on the five-member commission, some of whom praised Mr. Webster as a vigorous voice for law enforcement who would be tough on the profession.

But the two Democrats planned to issue a bitter dissent when the commission formally votes on the membership of the new agency on Friday. They prefer it be headed by John H. Biggs, a leading voice for aggressive oversight of the profession who until recently had appeared to have the bipartisan support of a majority of the commissioners.

The selection of Mr. Webster was made after Harvey L. Pitt, the S.E.C. chairman, and the two other Republicans on the commission all three of whom have had career ties to the accounting profession decided to reject Mr. Biggs. Mr. Biggs, who is chairman of TIAA-CREF, the large pension system, testified this year for an independent regulator and tighter restrictions on the profession. His selection had been opposed by some accountants and one of their most important Republican allies in Congress, Representative Michael G. Oxley, Republican of Ohio, who heads the committee that oversees the commission.

Mr. Webster, 78, now a partner at the law firm of Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy, is widely known for his long record of government service and law enforcement. Mr. Webster did not return a telephone call seeking comment, but officials said he had accepted the offer.

But some experts noted that he had little recent experience in accounting issues and had played no role in recent years in the debates over a variety of regulatory and accounting issues that will have to be addressed by the new board.

"Webster has been an administrator and judge of unblemished integrity," said James D. Cox, a professor of corporate and securities law at Duke University. "But there is nothing in his background to show that he will be an instrument of change or that he has any recent experience in these areas."

Others were more blunt.

"I'm putting my money in money markets," said Lynn E. Turner, a former chief accountant at the commission. "It's unfortunate that William Webster is being used as a pawn by the administration and Harvey Pitt and that the accounting profession has succeeded in vetoing somebody they didn't want. Investors, Webster and the reputations of accountants are going to suffer for this."

But Paul S. Atkins, one of the Republican commissioners, said there was no validity to the idea that he or the other Republicans on the commission had buckled to pressure from accountants. He said the commissioners liked Mr. Webster because they were looking for a person with a strong background in law enforcement who would be both tough and independent.

"They will not find Bill Webster to be an easygoing guy," Mr. Atkins said. "He will not be a paper tiger. If they think they are getting a milquetoast guy, they are mistaken."

Officials said that in accepting the offer, Mr. Webster asked that an old friend be appointed to the accounting board. That friend is Robert L. Virgil, a senior executive at Edward D. Jones, the brokerage house, and emeritus professor of accounting and former dean at the John M. Olin School of Business at Washington University in St. Louis. Mr. Virgil met with some agency officials today to discuss the job.

Other people mentioned today for possible board positions include Kayla J. Gillan, a former general counsel of the California Public Employees Retirement System, and Charles D. Niemeier, chief accountant of the enforcement division at the S.E.C. It is not clear whether they have the support of a majority of commissioners.

Mr. Pitt had repeatedly vowed to seek a candidate to lead the board who would garner unanimous support from the commission, particularly because the creation of the new accounting oversight board was viewed as the most important element of the regulatory response to the spate of corporate scandals and plunging stock markets. Mr. Pitt declined to discuss the selection process today.

The commission set a public vote for Friday for the five members of the new board after one of the Democrats at the agency, Harvey J. Goldschmid, objected to a request by Mr. Pitt to conduct a private vote, agency officials said. Some lawmakers and members of the commission opposing the choice of Mr. Webster said the selection demonstrated that the profession had successfully lobbied to veto the candidacy of Mr. Biggs.

Mr. Biggs drew objections for his repeated advocacy of a variety of proposals and a strong reluctance to delegate authority from the new oversight board to the profession to set auditing standards. He testified this year that he favored requirements that companies regularly rotate auditors, as his company has. He wanted stronger restrictions to prevent accounting firms from performing both auditing and consulting services for the same clients. And he wanted stricter accounting of stock options awarded as compensation to executives.

These positions conflicted with the views of accounting lobbyists who have sought through much of the year to kill or water down tougher regulation.As a lawyer in private practice, Mr. Pitt represented the top firms and their primary lobbying organization, the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. He wrote a white paper arguing against stronger oversight of the profession.

The two other Republicans, Cynthia A. Glassman and Mr. Atkins, came to the commission after serving as top executives at Ernst & Young and PricewaterhouseCoopers, respectively.

Mr. Webster has had a career in public service dating back to his brief time as a United States attorney in Missouri in 1960 and his appointment to the federal bench 11 years later. He was elevated to the federal appeals court in St. Louis in 1973. President Jimmy Carter appointed him director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation five years later and President Ronald Reagan transferred him to head the Central Intelligence Agency in 1987.As he contemplated the job, Mr. Webster heard from a lot of people.

Democrats, including the two on the commission, urged him not to take it. On Wednesday he received a call from Andrew H. Card Jr., President Bush's chief of staff, who urged him to accept the offer. Claire Buchan, a White House spokeswoman, said Mr. Card had known Mr. Webster for a long time and "knows that he's highly respected.""He reached out to him to thank him for considering serving," Ms. Buchan said. "The White House would like to see a highly qualified individual who would bring great integrity to the position."Mr. Webster also sought the advice of Alan Greenspan, chairman of the Federal Reserve and a close friend and tennis partner, an official said. It is not known what advice he received.

Before Mr. Webster's name surfaced, Mr. Greenspan and Treasury Secretary Paul H. O'Neill had endorsed Mr. Biggs for the job, a senior government official said.Officials said the decision to reject Mr. Biggs in favor of Mr. Webster was sharply criticized by the agency's two Democrats, Roel C. Campos and Mr. Goldschmid.

They have told colleagues that Mr. Pitt promised them last month to support the candidacy of Mr. Biggs and then backed off that promise after objections were raised by the profession and Mr. Oxley. Securities experts and Democratic lawmakers said today that partisanship at an agency that is supposed to be independent and has historically not been polarized by politics threatened to undermine the credibility of both the commission and the new accounting board."If the commission divides along party lines it would be the death knell for the public acceptance of this body," said Arthur L. Levitt, the former chairman of the commission, in an interview. Mr. Levitt, along with such figures as Paul A. Volcker, the former Fed chairman, and Senator Paul S. Sarbanes, the principal author of the law creating the oversight board, had also strongly endorsed Mr. Biggs.

The deep political divide at the commission arises just as it struggles to regain the confidence of Wall Street. Mr. Pitt has been repeatedly upstaged by more aggressive state prosecutors like New York's attorney general, Eliot Spitzer. Mr. Pitt has also been criticized by some lawmakers as unduly sympathetic to the accounting profession and slow to respond to the emerging corporate crisis facing the markets.

The oversight board has been viewed by lawmakers and experts as essential to restoring confidence in the markets by taking steps to end accounting abuses and reduce the record number of restatements of financial earnings over the last few years. Known officially as the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, the new agency has been given a broad mandate to set ethics and conflict-of-interest standards, discipline accountants and conduct annual reviews of the nation's largest accounting firms.

The S.E.C.'s enforcement division was dealing with another problem in a meeting yesterday at the commission's offices in Washington.Stephen M. Cutler, the commission's director of enforcement, and Mr. Spitzer met with lawyers from 10 big securities firms and proposed changes in stock research on Wall Street. Mr. Spitzer laid out a plan to have the firms pay annual fees to finance research that would be conducted by about 20 independent companies but distributed to investors by the big banks.

The regulators, who are also considering how to punish the firms for allowing their banking interests to influence their investment advice, gave the firms until Wednesday to respond to the proposal.




Post  44069  by  clo       Reply
Ex-F.B.I. Chief Seen as Choice for Accounting Post

By STEPHEN LABATON NY Times

WASHINGTON, Oct. 24 The Securities and Exchange Commission has settled on William H. Webster, the former F.B.I. and C.I.A. director, to head a new agency regulating the accounting profession, commission officials and Congressional aides briefed about the decision said today.

The selection was made by the three Republicans on the five-member commission, some of whom praised Mr. Webster as a vigorous voice for law enforcement who would be tough on the profession.

But the two Democrats planned to issue a bitter dissent when the commission formally votes on the membership of the new agency on Friday. They prefer it be headed by John H. Biggs, a leading voice for aggressive oversight of the profession who until recently had appeared to have the bipartisan support of a majority of the commissioners.

The selection of Mr. Webster was made after Harvey L. Pitt, the S.E.C. chairman, and the two other Republicans on the commission all three of whom have had career ties to the accounting profession decided to reject Mr. Biggs. Mr. Biggs, who is chairman of TIAA-CREF, the large pension system, testified this year for an independent regulator and tighter restrictions on the profession. His selection had been opposed by some accountants and one of their most important Republican allies in Congress, Representative Michael G. Oxley, Republican of Ohio, who heads the committee that oversees the commission.

Mr. Webster, 78, now a partner at the law firm of Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy, is widely known for his long record of government service and law enforcement. Mr. Webster did not return a telephone call seeking comment, but officials said he had accepted the offer.

But some experts noted that he had little recent experience in accounting issues and had played no role in recent years in the debates over a variety of regulatory and accounting issues that will have to be addressed by the new board.

"Webster has been an administrator and judge of unblemished integrity," said James D. Cox, a professor of corporate and securities law at Duke University. "But there is nothing in his background to show that he will be an instrument of change or that he has any recent experience in these areas."

Others were more blunt.

"I'm putting my money in money markets," said Lynn E. Turner, a former chief accountant at the commission. "It's unfortunate that William Webster is being used as a pawn by the administration and Harvey Pitt and that the accounting profession has succeeded in vetoing somebody they didn't want. Investors, Webster and the reputations of accountants are going to suffer for this."

But Paul S. Atkins, one of the Republican commissioners, said there was no validity to the idea that he or the other Republicans on the commission had buckled to pressure from accountants. He said the commissioners liked Mr. Webster because they were looking for a person with a strong background in law enforcement who would be both tough and independent.

"They will not find Bill Webster to be an easygoing guy," Mr. Atkins said. "He will not be a paper tiger. If they think they are getting a milquetoast guy, they are mistaken."

Officials said that in accepting the offer, Mr. Webster asked that an old friend be appointed to the accounting board. That friend is Robert L. Virgil, a senior executive at Edward D. Jones, the brokerage house, and emeritus professor of accounting and former dean at the John M. Olin School of Business at Washington University in St. Louis. Mr. Virgil met with some agency officials today to discuss the job.

Other people mentioned today for possible board positions include Kayla J. Gillan, a former general counsel of the California Public Employees Retirement System, and Charles D. Niemeier, chief accountant of the enforcement division at the S.E.C. It is not clear whether they have the support of a majority of commissioners.

Mr. Pitt had repeatedly vowed to seek a candidate to lead the board who would garner unanimous support from the commission, particularly because the creation of the new accounting oversight board was viewed as the most important element of the regulatory response to the spate of corporate scandals and plunging stock markets. Mr. Pitt declined to discuss the selection process today.

The commission set a public vote for Friday for the five members of the new board after one of the Democrats at the agency, Harvey J. Goldschmid, objected to a request by Mr. Pitt to conduct a private vote, agency officials said. Some lawmakers and members of the commission opposing the choice of Mr. Webster said the selection demonstrated that the profession had successfully lobbied to veto the candidacy of Mr. Biggs.

Mr. Biggs drew objections for his repeated advocacy of a variety of proposals and a strong reluctance to delegate authority from the new oversight board to the profession to set auditing standards. He testified this year that he favored requirements that companies regularly rotate auditors, as his company has. He wanted stronger restrictions to prevent accounting firms from performing both auditing and consulting services for the same clients. And he wanted stricter accounting of stock options awarded as compensation to executives.

These positions conflicted with the views of accounting lobbyists who have sought through much of the year to kill or water down tougher regulation.As a lawyer in private practice, Mr. Pitt represented the top firms and their primary lobbying organization, the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. He wrote a white paper arguing against stronger oversight of the profession.

The two other Republicans, Cynthia A. Glassman and Mr. Atkins, came to the commission after serving as top executives at Ernst & Young and PricewaterhouseCoopers, respectively.

Mr. Webster has had a career in public service dating back to his brief time as a United States attorney in Missouri in 1960 and his appointment to the federal bench 11 years later. He was elevated to the federal appeals court in St. Louis in 1973. President Jimmy Carter appointed him director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation five years later and President Ronald Reagan transferred him to head the Central Intelligence Agency in 1987.As he contemplated the job, Mr. Webster heard from a lot of people.

Democrats, including the two on the commission, urged him not to take it. On Wednesday he received a call from Andrew H. Card Jr., President Bush's chief of staff, who urged him to accept the offer. Claire Buchan, a White House spokeswoman, said Mr. Card had known Mr. Webster for a long time and "knows that he's highly respected.""He reached out to him to thank him for considering serving," Ms. Buchan said. "The White House would like to see a highly qualified individual who would bring great integrity to the position."Mr. Webster also sought the advice of Alan Greenspan, chairman of the Federal Reserve and a close friend and tennis partner, an official said. It is not known what advice he received.

Before Mr. Webster's name surfaced, Mr. Greenspan and Treasury Secretary Paul H. O'Neill had endorsed Mr. Biggs for the job, a senior government official said.Officials said the decision to reject Mr. Biggs in favor of Mr. Webster was sharply criticized by the agency's two Democrats, Roel C. Campos and Mr. Goldschmid.

They have told colleagues that Mr. Pitt promised them last month to support the candidacy of Mr. Biggs and then backed off that promise after objections were raised by the profession and Mr. Oxley. Securities experts and Democratic lawmakers said today that partisanship at an agency that is supposed to be independent and has historically not been polarized by politics threatened to undermine the credibility of both the commission and the new accounting board."If the commission divides along party lines it would be the death knell for the public acceptance of this body," said Arthur L. Levitt, the former chairman of the commission, in an interview. Mr. Levitt, along with such figures as Paul A. Volcker, the former Fed chairman, and Senator Paul S. Sarbanes, the principal author of the law creating the oversight board, had also strongly endorsed Mr. Biggs.

The deep political divide at the commission arises just as it struggles to regain the confidence of Wall Street. Mr. Pitt has been repeatedly upstaged by more aggressive state prosecutors like New York's attorney general, Eliot Spitzer. Mr. Pitt has also been criticized by some lawmakers as unduly sympathetic to the accounting profession and slow to respond to the emerging corporate crisis facing the markets.

The oversight board has been viewed by lawmakers and experts as essential to restoring confidence in the markets by taking steps to end accounting abuses and reduce the record number of restatements of financial earnings over the last few years. Known officially as the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, the new agency has been given a broad mandate to set ethics and conflict-of-interest standards, discipline accountants and conduct annual reviews of the nation's largest accounting firms.

The S.E.C.'s enforcement division was dealing with another problem in a meeting yesterday at the commission's offices in Washington.Stephen M. Cutler, the commission's director of enforcement, and Mr. Spitzer met with lawyers from 10 big securities firms and proposed changes in stock research on Wall Street. Mr. Spitzer laid out a plan to have the firms pay annual fees to finance research that would be conducted by about 20 independent companies but distributed to investors by the big banks.

The regulators, who are also considering how to punish the firms for allowing their banking interests to influence their investment advice, gave the firms until Wednesday to respond to the proposal.




Post  44070  by  clo       Reply
BEFORE THE BELL-Cigna plunges after outlook cut

NEW YORK, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Shares of health insurer Cigna
Corp. plunged 26 percent in premarket trading on Friday
after it cut its earnings estimates after failing to foresee a
big jump in health care costs.
Shares of the Philadelphia company were down $16.60 at $47
on the Instinet electronic trading system. It had closed
Thursday at $63.60 on the New York Stock Exchange ahead of its
announcement, which came after the closing bell.
Cigna blamed its revised estimates on a failure to hedge
risk effectively in some of its health plan accounts. Insurers
must predict medical costs months ahead and price premiums
accordingly. If they get it wrong, losses result.
Cigna warned the shortfall could mean job cuts, too.
((New York Newsdesk 646-223-6000))
REUTERS
*** end of story ***





Post  44071  by  weevil       Reply
IK..for real! I'm blinded to what is going on right now but I moved some LU over to the pull back in MEDI. I have no clue. If one of mine starts going up and I get very paranoid. LOL

Post  44072  by  jcl22192       OT: This individual, according to the news, was no


Post  44073  by  pmcw       Reply
lk, I think they are looking at the forecast for IT and cap/ex in 2003/04. There will be employment cutbacks in these areas going forward, but growth in the $ none the less. The combination means profits will grow faster than revenues as we move forward. Regards, pmcw



Post  44074  by  pmcw       Reply
NVDA, It appears there is a shortage of two key video chips in Taiwan as we move towards the holiday build season. In the mean time, ATI has launched a couple of new chips, but they won't hit the shelves in equipment to make any difference this Christmas.

DRAM prices are forecasted to run up in Q4 and consumer house, Kingston, looks like they are shifting much of their buying to Inferion. Be that as it may, it appears they will delay their joint venture with Singapore for a new 12" fab.

MER raised estimates for DRAM house MU significantly above the street. I think there will be a shift towards DDR DRAM next year which means that it might be a real good idea to buy OIIM on dips. They make the unique clock chips that go on DDR modules.

Regards, pmcw


Post  44075  by  lkorrow       OT: Tin, I was disappointed and saddened by your b


Post  44076  by  pmcw       Reply
Washington Congressman Ripped On Open-Source Criticism
The chairman of a House technology committee blasted Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wash., whose biggest political contributor is Microsoft, for attacking the free software movement.
http://update.informationweek.com/cgi-bin4/floy=eJSE0EKQRi0V20BkpO0AP




Post  44077  by  lkorrow       Reply
Thanks, pmcw, I guess that could explain it.

Post  44078  by  danking_70       OT: Tin, your premise is flawed.


Post  44079  by  lkorrow       Reply
Pretty amazing . . .

Scientists Shrink Computing to Molecular Level
By KENNETH CHANG

sing a novel computing technique that resembles an elaborately staged billiards trick shot, I.B.M. scientists have created what they say is not only the world's smallest logic circuit, but also possibly the smallest that could ever be made.

The entire circuit covers less than a trillionth of a square inch. The equivalent circuit made from state-of-the-art silicon transistors takes up 260,000 times as much space.

"That gives you an idea for what incredible potential there is for miniaturization," said Dr. Andreas J. Heinrich, a physicist at I.B.M.'s Almaden Research Center in San Jose, Calif., and the lead author of a paper that appears today on the Web site of the journal Science.

Instead of using the transistors and wires of traditional electronics, the scientists stuck individual molecules of carbon monoxide onto a flat copper surface at specific locations. Then, using the tiny tip of one of their instruments as a cue stick, they knocked some of the molecules, setting off a cascade of collisions. The final positions of the molecules provided the answer of the calculation.

The technique is far from practical. The calculations are performed in a vacuum at ultralow temperatures, a few degrees above absolute zero. Setting up the molecules to perform the calculation and then reading out the answer are slow, laborious tasks. For each calculation, the molecules must be nudged to the correct starting positions.

Still, scientists marveled.

"The beauty of this experiment is opening our eyes," said Dr. Wolf-Dieter Schneider, a professor of physics at the University of Lausanne in Switzerland. "There might be new possibilities in computing. This is a totally different approach."

Dr. Donald M. Eigler, leader of the I.B.M. team, has performed a series of increasingly sophisticated molecular tricks using a scanning tunneling microscope, which produces images of an object by measuring the amount of current that flows between a very sharp metal tip and the object. It can even make out the shapes of individual atoms.

In 1989, Dr. Eigler and Dr. Erhard Schweizer, a colleague, nudged 35 atoms of xenon with the tip of a scanning tunneling microscope to spell "IBM." Two years later, Dr. Eigler made a switch whose only moving part was a single xenon atom hopping between a metal surface and a tunneling microscope tip. But the nonmoving parts of that switch the microscope, in particular were too large for any practical use.

The latest work shows that entire calculations can be performed at the molecular scale, a considerable advance in the field of nanotechnology. Nanotechnology derives its name from nanometer, a billionth of a meter, or about one 25-millionth of an inch, which is about the width of 10 hydrogen atoms placed side by side.

"Here we've got the whole show at the nanometer length scale," said Dr. Eigler. "It hints at what our future has in store for us."

Current silicon technology will hit fundamental physical barriers in the next decade or two. Most earlier efforts in the emerging field of molecular electronics have focused on finding ways to continue the miniaturization of transistors.

For I.B.M.'s molecular trick shot, the surface of a crystal of copper serves as the billiards table. Unlike billiard balls, the carbon monoxide molecules do not roll smoothly along the surface. The copper atoms, which are lined up in neat rows, form tiny hollows where the carbon monoxide molecules can settle, somewhat like tennis balls sitting in an egg carton.

The carbon monoxide molecules are considerably larger than the indentations, so two molecules in neighboring indentations push up against each other. When three molecules form a V-shape, pressure from the two outside molecules inevitably shove the center one to the next space over.

While colliding carbon monoxide molecules will never be a practical method of computing, there might be other ways of using such cascade calculations, the scientists said. One possibility might be a lattice of tiny magnets, with the flipping of one causing one or more of its neighbors to flip. The magnets could be easily reset by an external magnetic field.

"It's just a really interesting demonstration of how small you can get and still manipulate information," said Dr. James Heath, a professor of chemistry at the University of California at Los Angeles. "It's a beautiful piece of work. Don Eigler and his group work at the boundary between art and science."

Source: http://nytimes.com/2002/10/25/technology/25COMP.html




Post  44080  by  Decomposed       OT: Table ON TOPIC SUMMARY Oct 24, 2002
Post  44081  by  Decomposed       ot: tin,
Post  44082  by  clo       OT: Twisted behavior: While I'm not taking a stand
Post  44083  by  danking_70       OT: The big new lie, By ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ
Post  44084  by  Decomposed       ot: tin, and one source.
Post  44085  by  maniati       OT: BTW, jcl and dan are correct: the guy was NOT


Post  44086  by  clo       Reply
NEWS ALERT Plane With Eight Aboard Crashes in Minn. (1:24 P.M. E.T.)
NY Times, Paul Wellstone is said to have died in this crash.
Just heard this on Court TV. How very sad. clo


Post  44087  by  goboyone60       OT: Is anyone else on table having fun trading (WY
Post  44088  by  pacemakernj       OT: Clo, both his wife and daughter were with him.


Post  44089  by  lkorrow       Reply
Pace, Clo, eight people on board. Three children, one on board. A shame. They were just saying he was known as the Maverick in the Senate. He opposed the Gulf War and our policy over there now, according to cnbc. Strong labor supporter. Plane crashed near an airport runway. Balance in the Senate in question . . .

Post  44090  by  jeffbas       OT: Very sad - and control of the US Senate may we
Post  44091  by  Decomposed       ot: Breaking news, Senator Dies
Post  44092  by  Decomposed       ot: jeffbas,


Post  44093  by  jeffbas       Reply
According to the TV, the Democrats, according to MN law, have the right to substitute a candidate - or to leave Wellstone on the ballot and let Gov. Ventura appoint a replacement, if he wins. It looks to me like the Republicans could be on the short end of the "emotion" vote again.



Post  44094  by  tinljhtkh       Reply
Sorry to hear about Paul Wellstone!

Looking beyond the initial shock of this tragedy, it looks like we have another Democratic senatorial candidate gone in subsequent electorial cycles in very close Senate contests! Mel Carnahan was lost in Missouri just two years ago!

Jessie Ventura now becomes a very important figure in this drama! He is the independent governor of Minnesota and will make the replacement appointment, probably on the advice of the Minnesota Democratic central committee! Whether Ventura has the ability to appoint himself I do not know! Whether he still has the popularity to be elected if he was appointed would be even more unclear! Press is now discussing appointing Walter Mondale, the former Vice President, to this position!

This is also the second Democratic incumbent vacate a senate race this year. Robert Torricelli of New Jersey is the other candidate to withdraw! It is my opinion that this development could affect races across the country, energizing the Democrat electorate to go to the polls in even larger numbers than they might first have contemplated.
With this sniper incident now behind the country, turnout may be very heavy around the nation, particularly where there are heavily contested races for governorships and the Senate.

The 2002 mid-term races will tell whether the energization that began in Florida in 2000 will continue on into this electorial cycle, or whether the new patriotism in evidence after September 11, 2001 has interdicted that emerging trend, redirecting it toward the Republican Party. There have been very few cases where the incumbent party has gained seats in the mid-term elections in the modern political age. We also have the added twin dramas of Jean Carnahan, the wife and the elected replacement for the last Democrat killed in a plane crash facing Jim Talent, the defeated Republican candidate for governor in Missouri and the face off in Florida that Jebb Bush in involved in. Not only is Jeb Bush facing a strong Democrat, but also the spector of the 2000 election disaster, the 2002 primary fiasco, and, more lately, his daughter going to jail for drug usage. Many have questioned why that he wasn't at her sentencing! Ms Carnahan is expected to lose her race to Talent, although it is still too close to call!

It is also of interest that the once heavily discounted New Jersey one issue Republican Senate candidate is now facing anti-gun lobby ads being run by his recently appointed Democratic opponent in the wake of the sniper shooting around the nations' capital!

When we look back at plane crash deaths involving the Senate, it is always best to remember the one involving Senator Heins from Pennsylvania a number of years ago! He was very popular and was killed right over one of Pennsylvania's major cities when his small plane collided with another aircraft! The Payne Stewart jet crash also comes to mind! Stewart was not a politician but his plane continued on for several hours after a depressurization in the cockpit rendered all aboard either dead or incapacitated. Air Force jets followed Payne Stewart's plane until it ran out of fuel and crashed!

It is of interest to note that now Attorney General John Ashcroft got that position after losing the election to Jean Carnahan in November, 2000! Ashcroft later claimed that his campaign's decision to take a seven day suspension of activity allowed the Democrats to gain momentum with Jean Carnahan's agreement to run in her husband's place. That time argument will not be an issue in the Minnesota decision this year. Wellstone had gained ground recently after President Bush had campaigned against him in the very liberal northern state, the home of Hubert Humphrey and a number of other liberal peace activists through the years! Wellstone, himself, had been active in peace causes for years, as well as civil rights causes in the South!

IMVHO!

Regards,

Tin


Post  44095  by  jeffbas       OT: In my opinion, considering the success the Dem


Post  44096  by  jbennett53       Reply
pacemaker, One very important point about Wellstone. He was one of the few voices against the poisons we are spraying in Columbia and other SA countries. We have even been working on genetically engineered fungi to be released into that environment. Peasants are becoming ill and losing the food crops which feed them. He will be very much missed by those poor people.



Post  44097  by  oldCADuser       Reply
Well I just got in from my flight from Korea (at least we got in about an hour early as we had 175 mph tail winds). I was driving from LAX when I heard the news about Senator Wellstone and when I got home I turned on the cable news for more details. When I moved around the news channels I was shocked at the comments coming from CNBC. All they could talk about was how at the instant the news of the crash hit Wall Street that the market jumped way up and they then listed several examples of stocks (pharmacuticals, tobacco, defense, etc) that had all jumped at about the same time. For the next 10 minutes all that the talking heads and on-screen "personalities" could talk about was how this news was going to be positive for the above mentioned sectors (I guess that the street feels that the GOP will now win the Senate hands down and of course they assume that all of these sectors will be immediate winners once the Dem's are "out of the way"). I don't know, but it just seemed pathetic that this appeared to be the most important aspect of this tragic news. What about the fact that the country has lost (not to mention the Wellstone family) a very dedicated person (along with his wife & daughter) who spent his entire life trying to help people, both as an educator and in his representation of the interests of the people of Minnesota. I guess in this "election season" everything is being skewed (I can't wait to see what FOX has to say about this, which BTW will be the subject of some comments that I will post later this weekend based on what I saw in the last couple of days from my hotel in Korea while watching FOX's international news feed coverage of the sniper situation).

OCU


Post  44098  by  pacemakernj       OT: JBennett, while I did not agree with Wellstone
Post  44099  by  clo       OT: a hell of a price to pay for an "emotiona


Post  44100  by  srudek       Reply
Economist-Credit Crunching
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A lot more signs that the credit crunch is spreading. Can it spread to consumer loans as well? That would be a mess.
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http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1403724

"Almost 13% of all [commercial]loans failed to get a pass, compared with 9% of loans last year and just 5% of loans the year before. The practical implication for banks is that they must apply more capital against the loans that have been fingered, or else arrange some other kind of so-called credit enhancement. Either way, the loan becomes less profitable. In effect, they must charge more or reduce their exposure.

Curiously, because the review is supposed to be a matter between regulators and banks, there are strict prohibitions against telling companies that their credit standing has been slashed. Rather, companies guess that this has happened only by facing a testy renegotiation with their lenders. Plenty of such discussions are going on. If companies are unhappy, they cannot challenge the methodology. Nor has any outside work assessed the accuracy of the rating system. A company that has been downgraded can, naturally, seek to arrange a better deal by selling debt or equity through the public markets. This year, that is not much of an option."




Post  44101  by  pmcw       OT: Decomp, This one might be for you:
Post  44102  by  tinljhtkh       OT: It was just
Post  44103  by  lkorrow       OT: Well there was a reference to drug companies g